Appreciate the rant, and sometimes rants are necessary. But why leave us all in the pit? How about going deeper on proposed alternatives? What kinds of stories? I mean for example, the Lord of the Rings is a myth about a fellowship, the Argonauts… you go on and on about the problem and briefly propose an alternative in one sentence. I’m eagerly awaiting part two of the cliffhanger, the sequel.
Thanks Dave this is wonderful feedback. What if my failure to resolve the arc here is itself a demonstration of the concepts at play? Nah I'm kidding--I'm just a lazy writer. But in the meantime, here's some breadcrumbs...
Hahah Bonus Peterson dig..... I would humbly ask that you consider not throwing out the Jungian baby with the Petersonian bathwater. And this is probably a bridge too far for most people, but I try to distinguish between Peterson the visionary and Peterson the partisan warrior. The former has some value, the latter is just adding to the chaos/disharmony. Here's a take I like on that: https://beiner.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-jordan-peterson
I agree with most of your view on the Hero's Journey as denoted by Campbell, and the need for group stories. It's dated, individualistic, and has some colonial/indigenous undertones.
I would also ask that you not give up on narrative structure whole cloth- there is value to understanding what has come before, because the stuff that stands the test of time resonates with humans for a reason. We need every tool in the toolbox (haha mechanistic metaphor).... We need every rake in the garden shed..... for the years to come.
Thanks for the link. Yeah I'm not a hardcore anti-Jungian. I've known people who wielded his metaphors deftly, humanely, and compellingly. I think the real danger lies in the tendency for our ethereal metaphorical concoctions to take actual tangible shape in society by (in part) affecting our capacity for sensemaking. Like once you've connected the dots, it becomes harder to see what other images can be drawn from a scattered field. Paying attention to a particular thing is exactly what gives rise to inattentional blindness, etc... So while I definitely agree with you that the old stories hold insight and value (particularly in understanding why people see things the way they do), and are a tool we can and should wield at times, I think we should be challenging them and asking what stories might serve us better going forward.
Appreciate the rant, and sometimes rants are necessary. But why leave us all in the pit? How about going deeper on proposed alternatives? What kinds of stories? I mean for example, the Lord of the Rings is a myth about a fellowship, the Argonauts… you go on and on about the problem and briefly propose an alternative in one sentence. I’m eagerly awaiting part two of the cliffhanger, the sequel.
Thanks Dave this is wonderful feedback. What if my failure to resolve the arc here is itself a demonstration of the concepts at play? Nah I'm kidding--I'm just a lazy writer. But in the meantime, here's some breadcrumbs...
In part, I think the answer here is sociological vs psychological narratives- a framing which I first learned about here: https://neurabites.com/psychological-vs-sociological-narratives/?fbclid=IwAR1VC_pqPnY2vhkK-bW6vWTMe3vF2as8BrrAOlPXaM3DfaQbUYiQGOkLl1U
There's another piece that explores this by Zaynep Tufecki, about the narrative shift in the last season of Game of Thrones: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/
Someone also shared a cool NYT piece in response to this one on why our lives don't need a narrative arc: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/12/special-series/life-doesnt-need-a-narrative-arc.html
Hahah Bonus Peterson dig..... I would humbly ask that you consider not throwing out the Jungian baby with the Petersonian bathwater. And this is probably a bridge too far for most people, but I try to distinguish between Peterson the visionary and Peterson the partisan warrior. The former has some value, the latter is just adding to the chaos/disharmony. Here's a take I like on that: https://beiner.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-jordan-peterson
I agree with most of your view on the Hero's Journey as denoted by Campbell, and the need for group stories. It's dated, individualistic, and has some colonial/indigenous undertones.
I would also ask that you not give up on narrative structure whole cloth- there is value to understanding what has come before, because the stuff that stands the test of time resonates with humans for a reason. We need every tool in the toolbox (haha mechanistic metaphor).... We need every rake in the garden shed..... for the years to come.
Thanks for the link. Yeah I'm not a hardcore anti-Jungian. I've known people who wielded his metaphors deftly, humanely, and compellingly. I think the real danger lies in the tendency for our ethereal metaphorical concoctions to take actual tangible shape in society by (in part) affecting our capacity for sensemaking. Like once you've connected the dots, it becomes harder to see what other images can be drawn from a scattered field. Paying attention to a particular thing is exactly what gives rise to inattentional blindness, etc... So while I definitely agree with you that the old stories hold insight and value (particularly in understanding why people see things the way they do), and are a tool we can and should wield at times, I think we should be challenging them and asking what stories might serve us better going forward.